This forum

[cloudburst]

Is this forum limited to only Christian bands, or can we also dicuss secular music?

Thanks so much!!!

[Kelly]

You are more than welcome to discuss secular artists here :) Welcome to the boards btw :) If you have any questions, feel free to PM me anytime!

[ktyme06]

what kind of "secular" bands do you like?

my brother siad that Paramore is one(even though I kinda considering them christian).

I like Metro Station, Fall Out Boy, All Time Low...punk pop stuff mainly.

[cloudburst]

You are more than welcome to discuss secular artists here :) Welcome to the boards btw :) If you have any questions, feel free to PM me anytime!

Great!!! I actually just recently started getting into Christian music again, so my repertoire is still pretty limited. I used to listen to a lot of bands like MCR, the Killers (whom I still love), and a lot of hard-core rock (Taking Back Sunday, 3 Days Grace, Buckcherry, etc.) and junk like Panic At The Disco (who are just raunchy). Anyhow, I still like some secular, but very little.

But, since recently re-dedicating my life to Christ, I have really come to appreciate Christian music, and the ministry it has had in my life. Thus far, Jeremy Camp is one of my favorites, and I hope to learn more by being here. Any other good musicians you can recommend?

So far, I love Delirious?, Plumb, Matt Kearney, and the new single by Grey Holiday is very nice.

Anyhow, thanks a lot. It's good to be here.

[cloudburst]

what kind of "secular" bands do you like?

my brother siad that Paramore is one(even though I kinda considering them christian).

I like Metro Station, Fall Out Boy, All Time Low...punk pop stuff mainly.

Hey, ktyme;

Truthfully, I don't like many secular artists these days...I guess I don't have the same musical connection to them as I did, although I still love the Killers, and Coldplay is an amazing band...I will never stop loving them.

I also like REM and Stone Temple Pilots a lot, and Evanescence. Chris Daughtry has a great voice. I used to really love Nirvana, but I find myself not being able to saturate myself in Kurt's music, because it's just too depressing. I used to like Fallout Boy, but their music gets old fast to me.

I still love the Beatles, and almost all classical music....It's just lovely to me.

Other than that, I really can't think of any. Secular music used to be a huge part of my life...It used to define a lot of who I was, and I took it very seriously. I guess that God is just re-defining me.

[Kelly]

I'm the same way. Just in the past year I've found myself listening to way less secular music and way more Christian music. Not that there's anything wrong with secular music...I'm a huge fan of many secular artists...just that Christian music is all so uplifting. Secular music has its ups and downs :p

I could recommend so many artists, it's hard! :p One of my favorite secular artists is The Fray! They've said they'd rather have gone Christian, but realized they could reach more people by going secular so they did. Very cool! Dave Barnes is also good and Jonny Lang. I'm big on classic rock too...love Tom Petty, Journey, Eagles, Beatles, all those bands :)

[cloudburst]

I'm the same way. Just in the past year I've found myself listening to way less secular music and way more Christian music. Not that there's anything wrong with secular music...I'm a huge fan of many secular artists...just that Christian music is all so uplifting. Secular music has its ups and downs :p

I could recommend so many artists, it's hard! :p One of my favorite secular artists is The Fray! They've said they'd rather have gone Christian, but realized they could reach more people by going secular so they did. Very cool! Dave Barnes is also good and Jonny Lang. I'm big on classic rock too...love Tom Petty, Journey, Eagles, Beatles, all those bands :)

You know, before I re-dedicated my life to God, I would hear the Fray all the time on secular radio, and they never struck me as a Christian band. I think their fan base reaches both secular and Christian. On the other hand, when I first hear Matt Kearney's Undeniable, even though I wasn't with the Lord, I thought "Man, he could be talking about Jesus," especially when he says You're the only one, when this world collides, the one I can't deny

I don't know how many of you are familiar with the Killers, but their lead singer is actually Mormon, and his music is incredibly replete with spiritual lyrics. They are probably my favorite secular band, but if you listen to their albums, you'll notice a lot of spiritual overtones. Brandon Flowers once said in an interview that the song All These Things That I've Done is like a prayer to God.

I find it sad that He would be begging God to help him out, and not to put him on the backburner.

[drake71449]

hmmm my list of christian bands....RED...Aaron Shust rocks....Addison Road...l really like hard rock....

secular....i used to be metallica head...or whatever...i like evanescence sound...daughtry is good

oh christian again.... day of fire and plenty of others....kj52 for rap...kutless and etc

:p

[drake71449]

one more .....MIKE HIRST.... www.hirstmusic.com he has some awesome stuff you should really listen to em.... GOD WILL PROVIDE is my fave!!!

:p

[cloudburst]

Oh, my goodness, how could I forget Leeland? They are one of the first Christian bands I started listening to!!

[Labby]

Some of my favs (Christian, not including the obvious J):

Third Day
TobyMac
Newsboys
Mat Kearney
Shawn McDonald
Thousand Foot Krutch
Audio Adrenaline
MercyMe

Some of my favorites (Secular, may just be one song):

Led Zeppelin
Eric Clapton
Santana
Clint Black
Guns n Roses (Paradise City, Sweet Child O Mine)
Daughtry
Jimi Hendrix
BB King
The Beatles
Bob Dylan

[ktyme06]

Great!!! I actually just recently started getting into Christian music again, so my repertoire is still pretty limited. I used to listen to a lot of bands like MCR, the Killers (whom I still love), and a lot of hard-core rock (Taking Back Sunday, 3 Days Grace, Buckcherry, etc.) and junk like Panic At The Disco (who are just raunchy). Anyhow, I still like some secular, but very little.

But, since recently re-dedicating my life to Christ, I have really come to appreciate Christian music, and the ministry it has had in my life. Thus far, Jeremy Camp is one of my favorites, and I hope to learn more by being here. Any other good musicians you can recommend?

So far, I love Delirious?, Plumb, Matt Kearney, and the new single by Grey Holiday is very nice.

Anyhow, thanks a lot. It's good to be here.
maybe you would like Pillar or Thousand Foot Krutch(rap core). most of my favorite artist are rock pop/punk pop. Hawk Nelson and Capital Lights and Run Kid Run are my favorites.


Hey, ktyme;

Truthfully, I don't like many secular artists these days...I guess I don't have the same musical connection to them as I did, although I still love the Killers, and Coldplay is an amazing band...I will never stop loving them.

I also like REM and Stone Temple Pilots a lot, and Evanescence. Chris Daughtry has a great voice. I used to really love Nirvana, but I find myself not being able to saturate myself in Kurt's music, because it's just too depressing. I used to like Fallout Boy, but their music gets old fast to me.

I still love the Beatles, and almost all classical music....It's just lovely to me.

Other than that, I really can't think of any. Secular music used to be a huge part of my life...It used to define a lot of who I was, and I took it very seriously. I guess that God is just re-defining me.

yeah...that last part was me a few years ago...I would listen to boy bands(yucky now) and then started to like these bands that I know weren't good for me spiritually but I didn't care. it changed me to listen to bands like Falling Up and Hawk Nelson.

[drake71449]

i like falling up they have a different sound to me....love tfk...surprised to see santana cuz i like him too ....actually i love all the great guitarists!!!

:p

[Convicted]

Hm... I don't listen to much secular music, (actually, I haven't listened to much music at all, for awhile... and I'm really musical-- but that's another story) though I do think there's some good skill with some secular artists/bands. The main reason I don't listen to it, is because there's just too much lacking for me... I love the art of music itself, but I also know how awesome music can be when the manifested power of God is present in the atmosphere of the music --- it's so beautiful and life changing at the same time, both spiritually and musically. Saying that, lately I've been greatly disappointed with most Christian music, when it comes to the art of the music itself (not necessarily the spiritual aspect, although I could comment and critique that at times....). The thing that's the most disappointing about Christian music (and much music in general) to me, is the lack of creativity, specificity, and analytical experimentation in constructing lyrics and music. See, when I listen to much Christian music (even some of my very favorite artists; ones that God has significantly used to impact my life) I can see areas that can be improved greatly, and also areas where their music and songwriting can be very misleading to those who don't hold much knowledge about the interpretation of the Scriptures, and their songwriting can also be very offensive to unbelievers... (not talking about the conviction aspect, which is necessary, but how they decide to communicate the timeless truths to those who don't yet know Christ.) Also, much Christian music is immensly vague, which means, the lyrics don't contain much specificity concerning the topic that the artist is trying to communicate. And since there isn't much specificity, this often leads to many different areas of semantics, which leads to different interpretation that could be very misleading to people, when only a little more clarity could be very helpful. Also, much Christian music is REALLY repetitve... You could hear the same lyrics repeated 50 times in the same song... and then very similar lyrics in nearly 100 songs.... there's not much creativity in the way people decide to communicate theses timeless truths of the Scripture. Musically, there's a lot of the same rote chord progressions... (namely, the major power chords; sure, they might be easy, but they aren't creative). I like intelligently creative music, vocals, songwriting, etc... but at the same time I believe we don't have to lose the power of God while being creative. In fact, I think if the church wants to attract those who aren't Christians, they need to offer something the world doesn't have to offer... that's really what is going to change the hearts of people; the demonstrative power of the Holy Spirit. At the same time, striving for musical excellence and effective communication is also very vital-- I believe it's something God enjoys since He's the author of it. So, That's what I like about music... When artistic excellence and creativity collides with the real power of God. And actually finding both of those awesome elements combined, is a very hard thing to find. Which is one reason I don't listen to as much music as I used to. Since most music usually is either artistically good, or either contains the real spiritual aspect...not both at the same time, I usually find both Christian music and Secular music, lacking in some way.... But at least God has given me a greater appreciation for each! Maybe God will use my perspective about it for something greater...

Some of my favorite Christian bands/artists:

Kutless -- my very favorite band. Although, some of their songwriting and music (especially in previous records) isn't very creative artistically.

Seventh Day Slumber -- another band I like. ^Same as above.^

Falling Up -- (I'm actually listening to their first CD, Crashings, right now!) Their songwriting and music for the most part, is usually written intelligently and creatively. Actually, The lead singer of this band, went to school with one of the guitar players (James) for Kutless. It's kind of funny, I didn't really like either band that much at first.

Leeland -- They have some intelligent and creative music also; although I don't listen to them much. I love their song "Tears of the Saints."

Sanctus Real -- They have some really good music. Intelligent, creative, strong lyrics.

For Rap... I like some of Da' Truth's music. Tobymac, has some good music... but much of it is pretty mediocre to me.

Chris Sligh -- (he was on American Idol a few years ago) He has some good music, although sometimes it falls into the mediocre range for me.

I like many artists/bands... but it's still a paradox when I listen to much music.
Lately, I've been experimenting with listening to foreign artists/choirs/bands.. I can listen to the same song in a different language... and there's something very different about it-- a fresh sense of creativity to me, and perhaps another earnest heart behind the song; that's what really captures my attention lately.

[cloudburst]

Hey, Convicted;

I know where you're coming from re: a lot of contemporary Christian music.

I'm not sure how long you've been listening to contemporary Christian music, but I am still fairly new to the genre, so much of it is still just inspirational and fresh to me.....such a refreshing change from the music I used to listen to, much of which was just vapid and depressing.

A lot of the bands that I used to like, I just don't feel a connection to them anymore....not like I used to, although I still like bands like Maroon 5, Weezer, Coldplay, REM, and my favorite band, The Killers (who are just awesome and amazing, but I won't get into that here). For me, Christian music offers something that these other bands just don't offer.....a chance to meditate on my beautiful Lord and Saviour, although I guess I know what you're saying about the creativity level.

Have you ever heard Jon Gibson? He had 2 really amazing albums that you may want to check out: Body and Soul and Forever Friends. His music may be a little outdated, but creatively-speaking, he is one of the best Christian artists out there, IMHO....and his lyrics are as annointed and honest as you can get. He's worked with Stevie Wonder and Quincy Jones, and he is very soulful and really loves the Lord. There's this one song he sings...Merry Go Round...where he talks about his relationship with his son, and it really shows you how the Lord can work through heartbreak and regret. Anyhow, he is one of my favorites.

I also like Leeland a lot (love the song Carried to the Table), as well as Plumb, Casting Crowns, Jars of Clay, and of course, Jeremy Camp. I'm sure there are others, but those are the ones that stick out at the moment. I also love the song Inside Outside by Delirious?. Even so, there are some awful bands out there (just don't get P.O.D. or Flyleaf).

LOL....It's weird that you mention Chris Sleigh, because he is one of the artists whom I really don't get. I guess I find his music (what I've heard of it) boring. Another one I don't really get is Mercy Me. I never was a big fan of the song I Can Only Imagine, and that was huge!!! Even so, if it reaches out to someone else, I say praise the Lord!!!!

Of course, if you're looking for creative music that inspires and glorifies God, you can't go wrong with classical......especially Chopin, Vivaldi, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, or Bach. J.S. Bach was actually a man of faith who dedicated all of his compositions to God. I am actually listening to Chopin as we speak. It's pretty hard not to listen to something like Beethoven's 9th symphony, Bach's Air Suite, Pachelbel's Canon, or Chopin's Opus #14 in Em (which I am listening to as we speak), and not see God (even if they were not specifically written with God in mind, you can still see God's handiwork in the orchestration and arrangements; after all, He was the one who created music).

Have you ever heard any of the Chanticleer albums? One of my favorites is their Mexican Baroque CD. It's pretty amazing. I would highly recommend that. It's all recorded in Latin, but if you are looking for something that challenges you musically, glorifies God, and inspires, then it's a really good listen.

Anyhow, I think that Christian music is pretty much like any other genre....you have your good artists, and your mediocre ones. Even classical music has it's share of mediocrity. Perhaps someone needs to comne in and raise the standard? Either way, God is definitely using it in my life right now, and I am inspired by much of what I hear.

[Convicted]

I'm not sure how long you've been listening to contemporary Christian music, but I am still fairly new to the genre, so much of it is still just inspirational and fresh to me.....such a refreshing change from the music I used to listen to, much of which was just vapid and depressing.

I've been listening to Christian music for most of my life, & I've been listening to contemporary Christian music for about... 4 to 7 years. I definetely agree that is it is refreshing compared to secular music-- it has a real message that's alive, through the power of God, which changes our hearts. That's something music in itself, no matter how "creative" it seems to be, can't do; which is why I like the combination of the two! It's priceless! :)


A lot of the bands that I used to like, I just don't feel a connection to them anymore....not like I used to, although I still like bands like Maroon 5, Weezer, Coldplay, REM, and my favorite band, The Killers (who are just awesome and amazing, but I won't get into that here).

Artistically, many of those bands show quite a bit creativity (at least musically). Although, I don't particularly like Maroon 5's music.


Have you ever heard Jon Gibson?

I think I've heard some of his music.. His style is sort of like a mixture of Jazz, Gospel, and R&B, right?


I also like Leeland a lot (love the song Carried to the Table), as well as Plumb, Casting Crowns, Jars of Clay, and of course, Jeremy Camp. I'm sure there are others, but those are the ones that stick out at the moment. I also love the song Inside Outside by Delirious?. Even so, there are some awful bands out there (just don't get P.O.D. or Flyleaf).

Plumb -- is one of those artists I don't get. :D But I don't think she's terrible, she has some creative aspects, the music just doesn't connect to me that much.

Casting Crowns -- I like some of their music. They always present a really good message, try to remain at the heart of the matter, and they usually present different topics in their music. They are creative at times in their music/songwriting also, although they do have a tendency to become mediocre in songs. Like, for instance, to me, the song "Slow Fade" starts off with a really good verse-- creative, original, great spiritual truth that you don't hear conveyed that often, (it's really awesome as far as I'm concerned!!!) but then... you hit the chorus... and it becomes a very mediocre, cliche (musically speaking) type of song. The reason I say this is because, when you get to the chorus they take the extremely obvious approach in conveying the message; the reason it becomes obvious and generic is largely due to the fact that they use one of the most common rhymes in history. "Fade" "Away" "Gray" "Invade" "Made" "Paid" "Away" "Day"....(that's just the chorus) I love rhyming, but sometimes it kills songs (the rhymes that are overly used... not ones that are analytic and fresh-- ones you don't normally hear in songs) by causing them to become very obvious, unoriginal, repetitive, and it makes them seem like the writer is trying to force the writing of the lyrics, so they turn to the easy alternative--- using the approach everyone uses because it's simple. I love simplicity, don't get me wrong, it's just this is another one of those songwriting techniques that sometimes doesn't attribute to a song in a helpful way. I love the message of the song though! My favorite songs from Casting Crowns (from the ones I've heard)... If We Are The Body, Set Me Free & East to West.

Jars of Clay -- They are creative in their songwriting, but I don't listen to them often. I think the reason I don't listen to them that often, is because vocally and musically the band doesn't intrigue me that much. My favorite song from them is, "Dead Man, Carry Me."

P.O.D -- I like some of their music. Very favorite song from them: Alive. They have some creative aspects (depending on the song; and how you judge creativity of course); different kind of songwriting, their combination of rock and rap! (I love that combination when it's done good.). But I know what you mean when you say, you don't get them.. Some of their songs are really mediocre to me.. the way they're presented doesn't intrigue me much; which is why I don't listen to them that often.

Flyleaf --- I can 100% agree with you when you say, you don't get them! 'Cause I don't either! The songwriting is somewhat creative (depending on the song-- usually they're their most creative during the verses)... I like some of the musical arrangements, but some of it is overdone and doesn't blend in right with the rest of the song/vocals... The part that really kind of turns me away from this band, is Laci's vocals. I really don't get it when I hear people say, "I just love her voice; she's my favorite vocalist!" And the thing is, she can sing to a point... it's just her voice or the style she's trying to sing/scream in doesn't settle with me right. That's just me though. =]


LOL....It's weird that you mention Chris Sleigh, because he is one of the artists whom I really don't get. I guess I find his music (what I've heard of it) boring. Another one I don't really get is Mercy Me. I never was a big fan of the song I Can Only Imagine, and that was huge!!! Even so, if it reaches out to someone else, I say praise the Lord!!!!

I know what you mean about Chris Sligh. Actually, when I think about it, I shouldn't have listed him. He's creative to a certain extent, but you're right, you can get bored listening to a lot of his songs. There's only two songs from him that stand out a lot artistically to me, namely, "Empty Me" and "Loaded Gun." I'd recommend those songs. But if falsettos don't appease you very much, watch out for the falsetto when it comes to the chorus in Loaded Gun . The rest of the music (what I've heard of it) is: Ok, some good parts, some boring/mediocre parts, some vague lyrics.

I was never a big fan of Mercy Me either. A few of their songs are Ok to me, but nothing that outstanding. Their song I Can Only Imagine , never really captured my attention much. I'd hear people continually talk about how God used that song to impact their life so much, and I'd be like... Hm, is there something wrong with me? Because, I'm not usually touched be God a lot when I listen to the song. I think part of the reason I'm not, is because that song is repeated SO MUCH! that once again its meaning loses its edge the more you listen to it (for me anyhow). I'm glad when God uses songs from bands/artist that I don't particularly like (musically of course), but what I've noticed is... God uses different things/people/music/etc to touch people's hearts and bring them closer to him... Not everyone is touched by Him in the same way I am either. To this day, I still wonder why He uses who/what He uses in my life... but I know He uses everything that He does, because He knows best, and has a greater purpose than my eyes can see fully at this moment. So I'm glad He uses bands and artists that I don't particularly like! I pray He continues to do that!


Of course, if you're looking for creative music that inspires and glorifies God, you can't go wrong with classical......especially Chopin, Vivaldi, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, or Bach. J.S. Bach was actually a man of faith who dedicated all of his compositions to God. I am actually listening to Chopin as we speak.

I definetely agree; classical music is usually more creative musically... and I love that!!! It's hard not to enjoy the intelligent composition of those artists. Sad part is, there usually isn't many lyrics in most classical arrangements; and I like harder music as well. I've always thought, that the mixture of classical music and rock (or metal) would sound very unique if done well. (I know some people have arranged that type of music, but it's not something you hear very often-- and most of the lyrics of those arrangement don't intrigue me that much).


Have you ever heard any of the Chanticleer albums? One of my favorites is their Mexican Baroque CD. It's pretty amazing.

I looked them up... They are creative! :) Especially vocally.


Anyhow, I think that Christian music is pretty much like any other genre....you have your good artists, and your mediocre ones. Even classical music has it's share of mediocrity. Perhaps someone needs to comne in and raise the standard? Either way, God is definitely using it in my life right now, and I am inspired by much of what I hear.

Yep, that's exactly how it is. But the disappointing part is, I think, Christians should be excelling in both aspects... spiritually and creatively, not just one without the other. After all, we know the One who is the most Creative & Spiritual, we should imitate Him in both aspects. I glad God is using Christian music to touch your life and bring you closer to Him! I pray He continues to use it in your life! It's a shame though, many bands/artists He uses to touch my life, usually aren't extremely creative, but that kind of testifies to me that... you don't have to be creative or wise or strong or great in natural terms, in order for Him to use you in great ways in people's lives; but it's always good to strive for excellence in all that you do, since excellence glorifies God also. But either way, He'll be glorified. So, to God be the glory! May our lives (everyone's on this message board) be a beautiful and unique representation and witness of His glory.

[Labby]

Shawn McDonald. You want creative music? Just listen to "The Rider on the White Horse." Lyrically simplistic, but musically varied. "Take My Hand" is another fun one he's got.

[cloudburst]

I must say that I have enjoyed reading your responses on this subject. I can see that music means a lot to you, as it does to me. Like I said, I am still fairly new to the genre, so I haven't really analyzed it to that extent. The main criteria I am judging by is it's level of edification rather than creativity. You make some valid points though, and I completely agree that Christian artists should be aiming for a higher level of excellence; on the other hand, I think that an artist also has to rely more on the leading of the Spirit than his own creativity. God knows how to reach people more than we ever will; for example, the song I Can Only Imagine, which we were discussing earlier: not the most creative song musically, but God used that song powerfully.

Artistically, many of those bands show quite a bit creativity (at least musically). Although, I don't particularly like Maroon 5's music.

Ya....I think Maroon 5 is one of those bands where you either love them or hate them. I've always enjoyed his vocals, and I like the catchiness factor of many of their songs. I Won't Go Home Without You and Sunday Morning are 2 of my favorites. He puts a lot of feeling into his vocals, which I really enjoy.
As far as the other bands go, yes, they are creative, which is the reason I like them. When you take spirituality out of the picture, that's the only criteria you have left to judge it by.....although if you listen to a lot of the Killers music, there is a huge spiritual element, although not the uplifting kind (Brandon Flowers is openly Mormon) that we enjoy. You hear lyrics like....

Dig me out from this thorn tree, help me bury my shame. Keep my eyes from the fire, they can't handle the flame. Grace cut out from my brothers, but most of them fell

Father, help me get down, I can't make it. If I only knew the answer, I wouldn't be bothering you, Father

When ther's nowhere else to run, is there room for one more son? You've got to help me out...Don't You put me on the backburner

We perservere. God gives us hope, but we still fear what we don't know.

.....and it makes me absolutely grateful that I know the true and living God, and that I enjoy this wonderful relationship with Him, and can rest in His promises. Actually, in a weird way, I think that God has used this secular band to give me a burden for those involved in the LDS church, and a desire to reach them. I have been educating myself on their theology, which involves having to earn forgiveness, and work for eternal life.

Jon Gibson is really great....He sings and composes with a lot of soul.

Casting Crowns -- I like some of their music. I love simplicity, don't get me wrong, it's just this is another one of those songwriting techniques that sometimes doesn't attribute to a song in a helpful way. I love the message of the song though! My favorite songs from Casting Crowns (from the ones I've heard)... If We Are The Body, Set Me Free & East to West.

WOW!!! I've actually never analyzed it that in-depth. I think Slow Fade has a beautiful melody, and I've never thought of the disintegration of the family as a slow fade before, so that really piqued my interest.

A lot of times, we see people whose families break up, and we wonder how it got to that point, because everything looked solid from our vantage point....from the outside; but the fact is, behind-the-scenes, the love and devotion was fading away. It's not a sudden crumbling, like some house of cards that comes crashing down.....it's a fading away of something that was once beautiful and blessed.

I guess I see what you're saying about the rhyming pattern, but I guess I was just looking at it from the truth factor.

If We Are The Body is actually my least favorite Casting Crowns song. Just don't care for the melody, although it has a good message.

Jars of Clay. My favorite song from them is, "Dead Man, Carry Me."

That's a great song!!! My favorite songs are Liquid and Love Song For A Saviour, off of their first album. I love how he repeats the lyric I want to fall in love with You, over and over again, because it really captures a lot of what I feel. Sometimes, I just want to fall in love with Christ all over again?!

P.O.D -- I like some of their music.

Flyleaf --- I can 100% agree with you when you say, you don't get them! 'Cause I don't either!

To me, neither of those bands are the least bit edifying.....theologically weak, and that one song where Laci talks about feeling God all around her, in her fingertips, and circling around her. I can't say that I've ever felt that way, and I think it gives a false impression of how the Lord works. We don't always feel Him all around us, and the Bible makes that clear.

If I hadn't been told these were Christian bands, I honestly never would have known.

I know what you mean about Chris Sligh. There's only two songs from him that stand out a lot artistically to me, namely, "Empty Me" and "Loaded Gun."

LOL....Empty Me is actually the only song I've heard of his, and I didn't care for it at all. The melody leaves a lot to be desired. I haven't heard a good falsetto since Barry Gibb!! :p

I was never a big fan of Mercy Me either. To this day, I still wonder why He uses who/what He uses in my life... but I know He uses everything that He does, because He knows best, and has a greater purpose than my eyes can see fully at this moment. So I'm glad He uses bands and artists that I don't particularly like! I pray He continues to do that!

I agree. The Bible says that God uses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise. To me, I Can Only Imagine sounds like a second-rate country song, but look at how powerfully God has used that song!!! God knows what will impact people's hearts a lot more than we could ever know.

As far as the message of the song....I guess it never really spoke to me. I just see it as someone wondering what he will do when he sees Jesus, but the Bible already says what we will do:

Phil. 2:9-11 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father

I guess i always figured that when we got to heaven, that our first instinct would be to bow in reverence to Him....I still think that's what we'll be doing, so I guess I just never got the point of the song.


I definetely agree; classical music is usually more creative musically... and I love that!!! Sad part is, there usually isn't many lyrics in most classical arrangements; and I like harder music as well.

Yes.....the power and beauty of classical music is in the construction of the music itself. Much of it doesn't need vocals to relay it's message. I think that if they added vocals to it, it would just be obtrusive, anyhow. Classical music is not intended to be heard with lyrics. It was composed with the sole purpose of appreciating the music, without the distraction of lyrics.
I don't think that God needs lyrics to speak through music, and I can imagine that the music we'll be hearing in heaven will be closer to the likes of Bach and Beethoven.....very glorious. I can imagine it will be more radical that anything we can imagine.

[cloudburst]

I don't think "All Around Me" is implying that we always experience God in a powerful physical manner. It is possible, however, to feel the Holy Spirit moving. I've experienced many times. I've never fallen out in the Spirit in the Pentecostal-sense, but I do think you can feel His presence.

Hi, Amanda;

I totally agree. I think that all Christians have felt the Holy Spirit move to some degree or another, but I guess I just can't relate to Laci's lyrics on this particular song. You're right, though....I should have taken into account that the Holy Spirit moves in different ways.

Her lyrics just sort of remind me of the church that I grew up in.....a charismatic Assembly of God church where being slain in the Spirit, dancing in the Spirit, was a regular occurrence, and there was no order when this happened. Everyone just pretty much went crazy. I look back, and I realize that much of it was probably not the Holy Spirit, but people acting in the flesh. mistaking it for the Spirit.

I guess Laci's lyrics on that song sort of reminded me of this mentality. I can honestly say that I've never felt the Lord circling me, or in my fingertips. It's always been from the inside out.

Also, the lyric my tongue dances behind my lips....something about that lyric always seemed creepy to me.

[cori]

april, check out heather clark sometime! :D (hahaha, i know the rest of you are either chuckling or rolling your eyes at my predictability!)

if you've got myspace, here's the link to her page (with new songs just added this afternoon, even! well....songs from the last 2 years, but new to the myspace list...):

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=53259617

when i have a chance to respond to the post in the other thread (i'm soooo sorry it's taken so long! friday was ANOTHER trip out of town, complete with closing the road i was driving home on WHILE i was driving home on it, being re-directed BACK to where i had come from with my not knowing a different way to get home, going BACK to the dentist's office because my son's lip was swelling VERY fast, and then getting a migraine before getting an alternate route home from hubby and then driving a little more than 2 hrs to get back home! either later tonight or tomorrow sometime - yay holidays! lol), i'm sure my frequent heather clark referral will come up in that - it's a very integral part of my testimony (as is jeremy camp, which is why i'm here! lol). anyway...

heather's great - everything we love about jeremy, but female! lol (well, ok, there are lots of differences, too, but....as for the lifestyle jeremy leads to back up his ministry, heather's just like him).

enjoy! :D

[indygirl47905]

hmmm my list of christian bands....RED...Aaron Shust rocks....Addison Road...l really like hard rock....

secular....i used to be metallica head...or whatever...i like evanescence sound...daughtry is good

oh christian again.... day of fire and plenty of others....kj52 for rap...kutless and etc

:p

KJ-52 is my favorite and Kutless is great!! ive met both of these bands
when i met KJ my camera wouldnt work and he was acting really silly then he gave me a hug:D and Kutless they let me take their pictures they remembered me and my daughter from the first time we saw them about a year later..

[ktyme06]

I totally see where you are coming from. For a year or so I went to an extremely charismatic church out in Franklin, TN. You'd see the same exact people up in the front every week yelling something out, getting slain in the Spirit, writhing on the floor like they're having seizures, laughing hysterically, etc. It made me uncomfortable. I do think God was working some miracles in that church, but there was definitely a fakeness and craziness to it all. That's ultimately why I haven't been back there since last May. I had to wonder how many of the people were actually experiencing the Holy Spirit moving and how many were just going through the motions or attempting to get some attention for seeming "holy".

I still go to a somewhat charismatic church now in Nashville. Definitely not charismatic in the same regard as the church I just mentioned. They believe in Spirit-filled worship. Check out a band called The Glorious Unseen for an idea of what I mean. Ben Crist, the lead singer for TGU, was the original worship leader for my church, but he got signed to Tooth & Nail records so now they're on tour a good bit. (Ben did co-lead worship tonight though. :) ) And people feel free to worship however they want. I've never seen it go beyond some kneeling, hand raising, clapping, or jumping. Nobody falls out in the Spirit or spontaneously starts yelling something they claim is prophetic, but they do believe in the baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit. They're more about using the gifts in ministry, whereas my previous church it was more like an outward showing of being holier than thou.

I think it's important to find the balance. If you're putting on a show to seem holy, the worship becomes fake. If you legitimately feel the presence of God, that's awesome!

I've personally gotten some fits of laughter on a few occasions during worship. And I've had other times where I felt a presence on me so strong that my hands shook or that I thought I'd fall to my knees. So when Laci says "I can feel You all around me thickening the air I'm breathing", I can understand what she's saying. There are times when I've felt God's presence so thick in a room that it was insane. It doesn't happen all the time as some charismatics that went to my former church would demonstrate by writhing on the floor weekly, but God definitely shows up in times of worship. I think Laci was singing about entering the secret place to spend time in His presence. Speaking to God and having Him show up and heal - making her feel alive.

And this isn't of course to say that you can't feel the Holy Spirit move if you aren't in a charismatic church. That's just the experience I have. I know plenty of other people that have experienced God in crazy ways that have never set foot in a charismatic church.

I went with my aunt one time to her church(and what I bolded) happened there. you see my church like the only people that really go up front in the room we have service are the youth and then a few adults. it freaked me out...I wasn't used to it at all. sometimes I do wish my church was more like it just in the way that like they don't hold anything back during worship. On a few occasions they have had the adults go up front and worship but yeah...

I do agree it is kinda fake if you are putting on a show(bold and italizied). I went as a chaporone to this college days thing at NCU(North Central University) in Minneapolis in March of last year. and like the second note of one of the songs in their chapel service everyone's hands went up that were on the main floor. I was like "okay?" :confused:

[Convicted]

The reason I've postponed posting this, is because... I once typed out all of my thoughts replying to this, but I forgot to copy them before submitting the reply, and the website logged me out... so all my typing was erased, and I needed to find the time, contemplation, and heart to re-type it all over again.

The main criteria I am judging by is it's level of edification rather than creativity.

I believe that should be the first layer of criteria upon which you build the foundation of judging Christian music (since it incorporates a Christian message, not solely music). Creativity, is just the musical aspect of it-- the area that you judge the actual artistic skill of a musician/vocalist/songwriter. The content of the message someone is portraying; the meaning I derive when I listen to a song, and how that effects me (spiritually, etc)-- and comparing that with the accuracy of the Scripture, and what little indications I can receive about the artists original intent for those particular lyrics, is always the most important part of a Christian song.


You make some valid points though, and I completely agree that Christian artists should be aiming for a higher level of excellence; on the other hand, I think that an artist also has to rely more on the leading of the Spirit than his own creativity. God knows how to reach people more than we ever will; for example, the song I Can Only Imagine, which we were discussing earlier: not the most creative song musically, but God used that song powerfully.

I defintely agree. I see it this way; if you go out there and only exhibit your own skill, than that's what you're going to receive something as valueable as you can create it. That's not to say, something wouldn't be valueable that you'd create, but it certainly wouldn't hold much spiritual value, since you only can receive that kind of value through the Spirit. You reap what you sow... If you don't let the Spirit lead you when you write a song, than expect a song that's only going to be written by you-- only expect the quality to be the level of your best... I don't really think you can write a better song, that the Spirit inspires you to write... I actually think those songs can be the most creative. However, there's so many songs out there where people claim to have been led by the Spirit into writing the song the way they did... and that might be true; to a certain extent, and depending on the person and the song. So often, people will receive genuinely great ideas that the Spirit is giving them at that moment; problem is, everytime you write a song I don't believe God is telling you to throw out your logic or creativity because He is inspiring you to write something. I believe our natural abilities should accompany, what the Spirit directs-- I don't believe He wants us to completely throw them away, and expect Him to do all the work when writing/composing music/songs-- otherwise He wouldn't have given us any ability in the first place. There are times when writing songs when we let His Spirit move on auto-pilot and direct us, but He can and does direct us with wisdom and creativity as well. If God doesn't want you to create a certain piece of music or write lyrics a certain way, then don't.. It's better to be in His will, than our own. But also, just because God gives you an idea for a song, does not mean you don't have to put any effort into making that song as excellent as it can be (within what God allows you to do with it.). Even more important than creativity, I'd rather have a Christian song written with theological accuracy, and a clear interpretation. I once had a conversation with people about the theological accuracy of Christian songs (particularly modern ones)... and really, sometimes I think some people who aren't Christians can inadvertantly portray more theological accuracy (even if it's from the wrong perspective) than some modern Christian songs. Now, when I say "theological" I do not mean, preach a sermon in a song (though you'll have your amount of people who attempt to do that)... Certainly preaching in songs, will not serve justice to both theology or creativity, at least in most cases (which is one reason the Christian genre is so messed up; in that sense). Sad part is, I could pick away at a majority of Christian songs, when it comes to Biblical accuracy... And that really disappoints me, because this genre should be the genre that portrays accuracy. This genre does portray a closer accuracy, for the most part, than others... but that still doesn't excuse the countless errors it has also made. When I say all this, I'm not claiming to be superior or free from errors when it comes to interpretation or my communication of the Scriptures; I just can't overlook all of the inaccuracy of so many songs that many people surmise are supposedly "accurate" (according to the Christian theology) because they have the title "Christian"... This could be very misleading to people; slowing deceiving them, when it comes to the actual truth-- giving them a skewed worldview, which is then slowly ingrained into their lifestyle. All I'm saying is, examine the accuracy of the song and how you're communicating that message-- and what you think other people, both Christians and non-Christians, would interpret from the song. Ask God to help you communicate something accurately, effectively, creatively, and most of all the way He wants; when He gives you an idea for a song. Sometimes I think that the Christian genre, is one, if not, the, most dangerous genre in all music...


Ya....I think Maroon 5 is one of those bands where you either love them or hate them. He puts a lot of feeling into his vocals, which I really enjoy.

I agree; I really commend them for putting so much enthusiasm, energy, and emotional involvement in to their music.. That part is really catchy. They possess great showmanship.

Very interesting lyrics from The Killers, by the way. So many times I'll listen to secular music, and my heart will just reach out for them.. Because when I compare their lyrics to Christian lyrics.. it's very relevant that inspite of differences of each of us, we're all primarily searching and longing for the very same thing/feeling/place-- or shall I say individual?.... God. Sometimes I can relate to secular music better, because they don't claim to have all of the answers... they're in that position where they're wandering alone, not quite certain of what it is they desire... When I listen to secular music, I really hear this huge pursuit for answers... and then man-made alternatives to fill in that answer that they're still inwardly longing to grasp a hold of. Sometimes I feel as though, Christian music cuts to the destination, while ignoring the journey, the specific struggles people encounter in their relationship (or what they used to think of as "before") their relationship with God.. Sure, Christian music will offer a certain amount of music that demonstrates being in the middle of a process, of getting from point A to point B... but it's still lacking a lot of specifics.. But then again, a lot of Christian music, doesn't really use much specificity in songs...


Actually, in a weird way, I think that God has used this secular band to give me a burden for those involved in the LDS church, and a desire to reach them. I have been educating myself on their theology, which involves having to earn forgiveness, and work for eternal life.

I truly believe a lot more Christians should educate themselves on the worldviews and beliefs of others. If we never get an in-depth perspective on what it is that someone else believe or how they tend to think, and why it is they believe something-- then that shows a lot of ignorance on our part; Because if we try to understand them better, that means we can learn how to relate with them and communicate to them with more effectiveness.

[Convicted]

I think Slow Fade has a beautiful melody, and I've never thought of the disintegration of the family as a slow fade before, so that really piqued my interest.

A lot of times, we see people whose families break up, and we wonder how it got to that point, because everything looked solid from our vantage point....from the outside; but the fact is, behind-the-scenes, the love and devotion was fading away. It's not a sudden crumbling, like some house of cards that comes crashing down.....it's a fading away of something that was once beautiful and blessed.

I like part of the melody to Slow Fade also; specifically the very beginning before any lyrics, and right after they sing the first verse. It's a great analogy you derived from the song; which is why I think the song offers a great message... It's just there's only one small part that gives you the opportunity to make that analogy in the song, and it's not very long at all--plus it's at the end of the song. They didn't exactly state everything you did-- but that which the songs portrays, is a very good thought.. I just think they should have extrapolated further on that idea in another song instead of meshing together that idea within this song, and not giving a very clear explanation of why they indicated that. Overall, this song is really a generalized song... which makes it very unspecific and somewhat incomplete. If we try to write a song with every thought that enters into our head, and we just put them altogether in one song, sometimes it doesn't do the song or the message justice. It might to a certain extent, but not to the full extent that it could. Many times when people write songs, (myself included) a billion different song ideas will come to their head, but the songwriter is then tempted to jam all of those ideas into one song because those ideas are all inter-related with each other.. Maybe you should take one idea and write about that one in-depth, and then take the other song ideas and do the same. That's just my take on the song; I do think the song has a very good message that it's trying to portray.


If We Are The Body is actually my least favorite Casting Crowns song. Just don't care for the melody, although it has a good message.

I don't like the melody to If We Are The Body either; it's not very creative or diverse musically. But I can relate to the message a lot, and the songwriting in that song is pretty good. If God uses a message of a song to really touch my heart, than sometimes I can overlook the creativity aspect, if it's lacking considerably. Overall, if I can really connect to a message, than that owns compared to creativity, in that case; although I may still be disappointed with that aspect of the song.


I love how he repeats the lyric I want to fall in love with You, over and over again, because it really captures a lot of what I feel. Sometimes, I just want to fall in love with Christ all over again?!


I love those lyrics also; and there's so much depth to them-- but I just feel that I've heard those lyrics recycled by people so many times, in almost the exact same way each time, that sometimes the true depth of the lyrics seems lost to me when I listen to a song.


To me, neither of those bands are the least bit edifying.....theologically weak, and that one song where Laci talks about feeling God all around her, in her fingertips, and circling around her. I can't say that I've ever felt that way, and I think it gives a false impression of how the Lord works.

I also don't like how Laci describes the whole "fingertips" part... I don't get that part. I mean, I can see why someone would say it, but I can't connect to that description.

Well, I do believe that many "Christian" bands are theologically weak within their lyrics (or at least because of the way they present them; since that can lead to many off-the-wall interpretations of the theology). I could point out many other bands/artist and their songs, if you'd want to see what I mean even further. Also, I have to say... some of these bands (I'm not necessarily indicating these two are either) aren't even trying to be theologically accurate/strong/deep. Fact is, there's many Christian bands who actually do a lot more entertaining than relating their message back to what the Bible says. I'm all for entertainment, there's nothing wrong with it in itself and you can worship God through your lifestyle with entertainment, but if you're really going to spend most of your time entertaining, then perhaps you shouldn't call yourself a "Christian" band... Maybe you should say that you're a Christian who has/is in a band. Many Christians use entertainment as a means to reach out to the "lost" and then deliver the message of the gospel to them... even in a stealthly manner. But sometimes I wonder just how effective this "gospel tactic' is... How many people are truly being saved? (I'm not concerned in the 'number' as much as I am the condition of the people's hearts). Or are these people being merely entertained (which is perfectly fine)? I'd just like these bands to indicate if their main goal was to entertain or to lead people into worship/etc..

*


If I hadn't been told these were Christian bands, I honestly never would have known.

Well, in case you didn't know.. Those two bands are widely recognized in the mainstream/secular audience as well. In fact, I had people in chat rooms, tell me how great Flyleaf was... But that's not the only part; they mentioned that song that we were talking about, and they told me that they liked the band, inspite of the Christian lyrics.. Obviously there's enough Christian aspects in their songs, to receive that attention from those who aren't Christians, but sometimes I wonder just how effectively constructed their messages are... And this song is a prime example. I ask myself... "If this song doesn't even effect me that much, I wonder just how much it will effect someone who doesn't even know God." Certainly, God will draw people to Himself, no matter how poorly portrayed a message is-- but we have to be careful about how we portray those messages. Just what kind of message are we portraying?


LOL....[I]Empty Me is actually the only song I've heard of his, and I didn't care for it at all. The melody leaves a lot to be desired.

That's true; there is still a lot to be desired in the song. But, I think the songwriting isn't that bad compared to some bands/artists. And the solo towards the end is pretty neat. The music during the verses, isn't very good. Altogether, it has it's share of up's and down's-- like much of his music.


I guess i always figured that when we got to heaven, that our first instinct would be to bow in reverence to Him....I still think that's what we'll be doing, so I guess I just never got the point of the song.

Yeah, I agree. I believe that will be the first thing we will do, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't, since I couldn't definetely say that will be the first thing we will do. To me, if you went to heaven, why wouldn't you want to bow before Christ and offer worship to Him for allowing you to enter in to that place? The best part of the song in my eyes, is when it says, "I can only imagine when all I will do, is forever, forever worship You." That indicates to me, that we should start worshiping Him now.. Otherwise, why would we want to worship Him for eternity?


Yes.....the power and beauty of classical music is in the construction of the music itself. Much of it doesn't need vocals to relay it's message. I think that if they added vocals to it, it would just be obtrusive, anyhow. Classical music is not intended to be heard with lyrics. It was composed with the sole purpose of appreciating the music, without the distraction of lyrics.

I love the beauty of classical music by itself also. Certianly lyrics, and adding words, can really hinder the success of a song... Sometimes music just speaks for itself-- or shall I say God can speak through it to us. It's a precious thing, just listening to a melody and contemplating about something at the same time. Sometimes I wonder if we should bother adding any lyrics at all... And the same thing goes for speaking-- Do we waste our words, when we could just Be Still and Know that He is God? Silence is a precious thing-- so is the art of music, when it's not corrupted by unnecessary lyrics. But there is a time for lyrics also, so I don't see why music with lyrics shouldn't maintain a high creativity level, similar to that of music that's played without the addition of lyrics-- as long as the music doesn't interfere/distract too much from the meaning/contemplation of the lyrics, and vise versa. When you combine music and lyrics, I think there needs to be a balance of both of them.

[Convicted]

Her lyrics just sort of remind me of the church that I grew up in.....a charismatic Assembly of God church where being slain in the Spirit, dancing in the Spirit, was a regular occurrence, and there was no order when this happened. Everyone just pretty much went crazy. I look back, and I realize that much of it was probably not the Holy Spirit, but people acting in the flesh. mistaking it for the Spirit.

You know what's so sad about that? When the Spirit REALLY does shows up and manifest Himself in people's lives outwardly-- people will start to have a tendency to just tag that experienece as something that the people are making up, when all actuality God really is demonstrating His power in/through/for people's lives at that time. So faking an act of the Spirit, through a work of the flesh that you made up, is a very dangerous thing to do; for both you and people who are around you. Why even bother faking a move of God? To look good infront of the people around you? To fit in with those who really are having such experiences? To deceive people? To try to feel good yourself? ... Come on. Get your heart right with God, and maybe you will genuinely have an experience. Perhaps, some of these people who pretend they're having a move of the Spirit and really aren't, are just deceived themselves... not possessing enough discernment to truly know the difference between the reality of the Spirit, and the reality of their own desires or feelings... This is why we should always remain skeptical, yet remain aware of the Spirit. Without a good balance between the two, you will always have a wrong perception when it comes to this matter; and not be able to differentiate between the two as clearly.


I guess Laci's lyrics on that song sort of reminded me of this mentality. I can honestly say that I've never felt the Lord circling me, or in my fingertips. It's always been from the inside out.

That reminds me of the song from Hillsong United (I don't listen to them that much either)... From the Inside Out (I absolutely love that song! Even though the lyrics are written in a rather simplistic fashion).


Also, the lyric my tongue dances behind my lips....something about that lyric always seemed creepy to me.

I really dislike that part also. It really is weird and creepy... even though I know what she's referring to. (Herself singing for/to God-- at least that's the supposed assumption I get from hearing the song; although that lyric is sort of questionable...)

The only part of that whole song that I truly like... Is the part when she says: And I begin to fade, into our secret place. That part reminds me of a song I wrote, called: Secret Place Of Thunder... The ancronym for that song is kind of cool... I didn't even notice it at first: S.P.O.T... The Secret Place Of Thunder, is the perfect S.P.O.T !!! :) One day I was reading this passage in Psalms 81:7, which reads: You called in trouble, and I delivered you; I answered you in the secret place of thunder; I tested you at the waters of Meribah. Selah. So at first I had no idea that ancronym was even encoded in that phrase which caught my attention that day. I think it's cool though. Anyways, that's the reason I like that part of the song.

[Convicted]

I think it's important to find the balance. If you're putting on a show to seem holy, the worship becomes fake. If you legitimately feel the presence of God, that's awesome!


I definetely agree!