Grieving, Trauma & Shame

[jllm04]

Could you guys please keep me in your prayers? A friend of mine (the one I mentioned back in April that lost her son to a rare genetic disorder 6 years ago), and myself are working on helping develop & kind of be guinea pigs for a bible study for Pregnancy Resources here in our town. The two ladies that will be leading the study are post abortive & they wanted the perspective of someone who had lost a child after birth to an illness & someone who has had miscarriages (that would be me-3 of them). The first four weeks of this study have been relatively straight forward & what I expected. We've spoken & studied about truths we can hold on to from Ephesians, looked at life questions, looked at shame, anger, trauma, rejection & unforgivness. Evaluated our view of God, emotional triggers, looked at love, & briefly discussed having quiet times. Looked at different subsets of shame- and the bad fruit that can be brought forth from those.
But today was much more difficult for me. We started a lesson on trauma & grief. I was sitting there listening and hit me like a ton of bricks that I not finished grieving the three children I lost. Somehow, I had dealt with it enough to be able to talk about & empathize with others. But with doctors dealing with me in a very detached manor & well meaning friends pushing us to move forward & stay positive, I never allowed myself to finish grieving. I swept it under the proverbial rug & pressed forward. Working on the areas I could control. This lesson is forcing me to grieve, & I'm not upset about it. It is just so uncomfortable for me. Parts of this lesson are so intensly personal & since I hadn't validated those children, it's rough!! God is using this to grow me, and this study when finished, will bless other women...but getting myself through it is quite hurtful right now. Some of those feelings are awfully raw- still! One thing in particular is that we are supposed to pray about naming the children we lost. Since we never saw them smile or held them it's incredibly easy to give yourself an out & not deal completely with the loss. This has been really difficult for me- it brings back feelings of being broken & a failure- feelings that Satan was all too eager to throw at me in the moment. It makes me feel hollow & empty all over again. Just don't want to get lost in the grief...

[LauraA]

Your post brought tears to my eyes. I could feel your pain coming through so clearly. I love you and I'm praying for you!

[DawnAurora]

((((((hhhuuugggsss)))))) It feels like it will kill you, but it won't as you know.

You see the value of grieving and the benefit it will bring you and others, so you won't get lost in it. Just keep following Christ as He takes you through the painful stuff and out the other side.

[Kelly]

I am SO praying for you Lana! My mom had a miscarriage two years before me & even though she had 5 other kids, I can tell every time the subject comes up that it's still difficult for her to talk about. She never really has gone into any depth about it at all, which makes me wonder if she ever pushed herself through the grieving process or just pushed it aside & went on without it. I know it's hard to force yourself to grieve when you know you're capable of forgetting it and moving on, but sometimes you just have to do it to allow yourself to come out the other side, stronger than you went in! Praying for peace through this study for you and for all the others involved!

[jllm04]

Thanks guys! Guess I just needed some good 'ole fashion encouragement! ...other side...that sounds nice! Anyone know the quickest way there? ( j/k! ;)
I knew I was supposed to be on the development side of this study when the opportunity presented itself, but this was my hesitation! If I may be so bold as to whine a bit- ICKY, HARD! Eventhough the 4 of us can't see the future & know the lives that will be touched, we know it's worth it. However, some days I can't see the other side of my shoelace, remembering why we are doing it gets thrown out the window! Then it's time for a perspective adjustment & we move on. This may take a few days though. I'm not exactly prone to sitting around wallowing in what appears to be self-pity. However, I think it's high time I lifted that coping mechanism & did some grieving...watch out, I'm going in!

[jllm04]

...as I was typing, Feels Like came on & now it's Take A Little Time. Wow...

[Kelly]

:)

.....that's all I can say to that :)

[jllm04]

So I tried to post "^^ :)" in reponse to Kelly. Boards said my message was too short! Now that is something you don't hear about my posts---ever! Better Boards?

[Kelly]

Hehe yeah 10 character minimum....odd!

[CherryCokeGrl]

Praying for you and all the other ladies.

[jllm04]

thanks Cherry Coke Girl :)

[jllm04]

I'm not sure how much is too much to share on this topic, but today was hard. I prayed about naming a child (well, children really. just taking it one at a time), & I just couldn't do it at first. Feeling like it was wierd to name a baby I didn't even know the gender of was just an odd thought. So I went on to a grief worksheet having reconciled myself to the fact that I would just have to write down 'child' instead of a name. I did just that. Went through all 3 of the miscarriages that way. Calling each one 'child' & then answering the questions. Got done & it felt so incomplete. I just started praying. Telling God I wasn't sure that I could. Again with the 'how do I's...' through my tears my tears I could hear that the first baby I lost was a girl. The last two were boys. Crazy for someone who thought she'd never know. And quite honestly, I figured out through a prayer that we are to say every day this week, that these facts that I thought I would never know, I held them against God. Not the facts per se, but as long as I had something to use I did. It was plain & simple unbelief that he would heal me. I was afraid for some reason He would leave me there. So I stubbornly held on to what I didn't know...& wouldn't let God in. Although I doubt he will give me the answers to all the questions I have. But that was a big hang up for me. And what did God do for me? Gave me an answer to a question that allowed me to get past that & feel more comfortable about the work that lies ahead. He removed an obstacle that I used to keep Him at bay. I don't know if any of this even makes sense. But it is most definately a lot to learn in one day! Oh- BTW, I think I have a name, but I'll leave that for a time when I know for sure. If it's too much info, just let me know.

[Kelly]

Sounds like God is doing amazing things through this for you! :) That does sound like a LOT to take in just one day! Wow. But God gives us the strength to get through it! :)

*hugs*

[Meadow]

jllm04- i sent you a private msg

I think it was back in 2004 the Lord gave me this idea for ministering to teens thru schools about purity and saving themselves for God's plan shortly after the Lord had called me to take a vow of celebacy. It was called "Keep It Pure"- it would be a daily challenge for schools- and have like a satellite comunication set up where it would connected to all the schools partcipating- start each day w/ a live personal msg from a different Christian music artist (daily or wkly) and song/music video that would encourage them in their walk of purity- this was before they came out w/ purity rings- or they were in existance then I didn't know about them cause I had in mind something that would be a daily reminder to hold them accountable to their promise to God. i was thinking like a pocket journel or pocket scripture card to be a reminder. To have like prayer partner to hold each other accountable all yr long. At the end of the year have a HUGE Festival-"Keep It Pure" - it isn't just about the sexual part of purity it's about our actions, our language, our efforts as well as this is something everyone needs even married people. The artist that partcipate thru out the yr come together each year to write a new song to honor the beauty of purity and what it means, which would be played at the end of the year concert. Also just the students involved and excited have a Purity Rock Club band at school where they learn about music and are challenged to define the meaning of their own purity into music- every school(depending on other factors as well) would have the opportunity to perform at the end of year Festival too. Even a marriage needs purity in all areas. :)

[Meadow]

I also think there is so much focus on s e x in school the pressures and adults puffing it all up intimidating their own child and don't even realize it. If we bring together all aspects of purity it takes that edge off allowing young adults to not see it as "that isn't cool." They will have more of a desire and acceptance of receiving the message of purity. Parents and teachers sometimes focus so much on the S E X part of purity all the other important aspects are missed - what about a pure attitude, pure efforts, pure actions/motives, pure thoughts, and pure language. If these things aren't taught or reflected by parents/teachers how will they be learned? They need to be taught at school and parents need to model this at home because this is detrimental to their adulthood and future life choices- jail or college- just an example.

[DawnAurora]

I'm not sure how much is too much to share on this topic, but today was hard. I prayed about naming a child (well, children really. just taking it one at a time), & I just couldn't do it at first. Feeling like it was wierd to name a baby I didn't even know the gender of was just an odd thought. So I went on to a grief worksheet having reconciled myself to the fact that I would just have to write down 'child' instead of a name. I did just that. Went through all 3 of the miscarriages that way. Calling each one 'child' & then answering the questions. Got done & it felt so incomplete. I just started praying. Telling God I wasn't sure that I could. Again with the 'how do I's...' through my tears my tears I could hear that the first baby I lost was a girl. The last two were boys. Crazy for someone who thought she'd never know. And quite honestly, I figured out through a prayer that we are to say every day this week, that these facts that I thought I would never know, I held them against God. Not the facts per se, but as long as I had something to use I did. It was plain & simple unbelief that he would heal me. I was afraid for some reason He would leave me there. So I stubbornly held on to what I didn't know...& wouldn't let God in. Although I doubt he will give me the answers to all the questions I have. But that was a big hang up for me. And what did God do for me? Gave me an answer to a question that allowed me to get past that & feel more comfortable about the work that lies ahead. He removed an obstacle that I used to keep Him at bay. I don't know if any of this even makes sense. But it is most definately a lot to learn in one day! Oh- BTW, I think I have a name, but I'll leave that for a time when I know for sure. If it's too much info, just let me know.

That makes TONS of sense. I think I have a similar issue going on related to work here. I'll have to pray over that for my own quiet time.

[cori]

lana...on so many counts, i can identify with you on this one. i've had 2 miscarriages - absolutely NONE of the grieving process was done. this was a very difficult thread to read (especially since it wasn't here the last time i posted & had to read the ENTIRE THING!), and has brought up some things that i need to work through myself. but....in one of your posts, God gave me the line to a heather clark song (i'll post the link for the song if i remember before i hit "post" lol) & i felt it was for you. the song doesn't exactly speak to *this* situation, but....about going through the intense & painful process of healing, because it's NEVER fun to go through that process. but...as we all know, without that process, healing is incomplete - the wounds & pain are swept under the proverbial rug. so....yeah...i am SO praying for you!!!! (are you working through a book for this? i'd like to get a copy....)

the line(s) of the song that i really felt were for you are:

i'm coming to be touched by the coal
i'm coming that You'd reach out Your hand & make me whole
i've walked by this fire so many times
but now i'm coming in

and the link is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y2yoEkqzUI

this isn't the best version, but it's still powerful. love you!!!!!
HUGS!

[jllm04]

I wasn't even sure if I should share any of this time in my life. Yet, I needed to & felt like this was the place to do so. You have each provided me with encouragement while I walk through this, & thank you very much! I must say, I get so much out of your responses-on this thread or pm. It is very cool to see what's going on with y'all & how amazingly open you've been with me too:)
Thanks again!!!
Oh-my husband & I decided on a name for her. Aislin Joi. Aislin means 'dream' in Gaelic & Joi is Latin for 'delight'. We both have said that she probably would have had a smile as bright as her name! We thought Aislin was fitting because she certainly was a dream, and it's the only time I've ever seen her. I'm glad we did it-naming her, that is. Odd, painful process - & there are still two to go. But I'm glad we did.

[cori]

that is a beautiful name, lana! we are praying for you as you deal with this, for however long it takes. :)

[jllm04]

Thanks for the link Cori! I'll have to go listen as soon as I pull myself off the boards:) I didn't know you have walked that path too! I'm sorry for your losses, I know that it is a tough road to walk. This is a study that we are developing & going through for Pregnancy Resources here. We also read a book called Grieving the Child I Never Knew. It's a devotional type book, but we read straight through it as opposed to doing one devotional per day. (not all in one day, it took about a week). Maybe once the study is done I can get one to you-but you really need to do it with a 'leader'.
The fact that so many women have suffered through miscaariages, abortions, or losing a child to a diagnosis during pregnancy or shortly after birth is one thing I've been almost surprised at. Women are beginning to tell me that a lot. It's crazy that so many of us are carrying that around.

[DawnAurora]

I get the impression that most older women here, and very many of our great grandmothers, have lost at least one pregnancy and/or baby.

[jllm04]

I do not doubt with better testing available that more women are aware of the loss. What has been most surprising to me is the depth & breadth of the hurt, shame & guilt we deal with & carry. And have to trudge through. Thing is, I've tried, but I don't I don't see how anyone does this without walking with Christ. Even when you think you are, He reveals something rather unexpected.

[jllm04]

well, there is now a name for the second baby I lost. Asher Jase.
Asher means happy & blessed; Jase means healer.
What a day for me. Nice to have the second name, but I have really been thinking about Aislin. Strange how people can say seemingly random things & my thoughts will turn to her. Guess it's just part of it all. Here's to working through another day:)

[cori]

still praying for you!!! :) let us know if there's anything more that we can do for you as you work through this. <3

[jllm04]

will do! thanks cori:)

[DawnAurora]

Praying for you also. Sounds like you are doing hard but really productive work with all this, well done!

[Meadow]

jllm04- I am praying for you, dear. God bless you! i know I didn't mention that on here but in the PM I sent to you I did. I can only imagine what your heart is feeling now! Stay weak in His strength!

[LauraA]

Lana, the names you've chosen for your little ones are so full of meaning and so sweet! What a beautiful idea to name them. I can see where it would help the grieving and healing process.

I lost a baby about 34 years ago. As I've read through this thread the past few times, I've cried and realized that I never grieved for my loss either. The situation I was in back then called for me to sweep all feelings aside and deal with just getting through each day.

I find that I'm makinig myself feel guilty that I've not grieved....like that baby wasn't worth the time and pain it would have taken to do so. And now I realize it's going to take time and energy to work through this, and I am short on both right now. More guilt. Why do I do that to myself?! (Let it go, Laura, let it go...)

Naming my baby is something I will need to do, I believe.

Lana, I admire you for sharing something so deep and painful with us. Thank you for trusting us. I believe I can say this on behalf of this entire community; if there is anything at all we can do for you, please call on us and let us know. And I mean that most sincerely. You're in my prayers! I love you!

[jllm04]

Laura, I am very sorry for your loss as well. I hate that so many of us ladies (boards or not) and because of whatever set of circumstance did not get to complete the grieving process. I'm so thankful for the openness of you ladies. Truly, I cannot express how much it means that you have shared with me & allow me to share my experience on here.
We decided on Ladan Jent for the third one. Ladan means witness & Jent means God is gracious. It feels like quite an accomplishment to have gone through through it this far and yet sometimes I look at it & think, " wow, this took that long?". I even told my buddy that's doing this as well, that this past week it felt as though it took an emotional act of congress to get anything done.
Still a lot to do, but, after God showing me what I needed to know to grieve, at the end of each day I can say "here's to doing it again tomorrow". :)

[cori]

well, lana, i can HONESTLY SAY that, to reach a point of embracing the grieving process, you have been through SUCH a healing process already! not completed, by ANY means - there is still a long road ahead, but....just to come to a place of willingly allowing yourself to walk this road, when you KNOW it will be full of pain & shame, you are beautifully demonstrating what it means to walk in FULL SURRENDER to His leadership in this area. you are such an encouragement to me, and, i'm sure, to ALL of us here. you are still in our prayers, and...

we love you. :)

[DawnAurora]

We're glad to walk this with you Lana.

[jllm04]

What a day! It's been a good one...working on our study & getting business things together for carousel. (somewhat odd making decisions about Chtistmas in July...)
But something has struck me today. I've had several people (friends of ours or friends of friends) tell me they are expecting this week. Normally I'd go, "wow, something's in the water around here lately..." and just be super excited for them.
But I've had to fight off some negative feelings. Probably feelings that I should've dealt with earlier had I been able to grieve at that moment. Just odd. It's not that I'm not excited for them, for some strange reason I've found wishing I was pregnant! Which is completely insane!! I'm sure it will pass... :)

[Kelly]

Girl that's not insane! :) Go with it! :p You know what's funny...my mom has 5 kids & she's about to turn 52 & still has not gone through menopause. We keep telling her maybe she's meant to have another child. She's like "Ummmm no!" Hehehehe. You never know though!


I know what you mean about those negative feelings. I get that when a bunch of people I know get engaged all at once. But just remember God has His own plan for your life, different from all those people...but just as amazing! :) Love you girl! Praying for you :)

[jllm04]

Well said Kelly! (although not so sure about having another one...hopefully it is a fleeting emotion!)

[LauraA]

You know, even though we have 4 grandkids and an 8 year old of our own, I still get that feeling once in awhile. I get to longing for a baby in my arms. (This too shall pass.) But seriously, I understand that feeling you have. And I've seen other women weep when they hear that someone is expecting a little one, when they've been praying for one of their own. It's a very real, normal, feeling. It will play out, then probably return once in awhile, but less intense each time. At least, that is how it's been for me.

You're an inspiration, Lana. Jesus bless you!

[jllm04]

Ok, so today I'm feeling very human...
After the very emotionally difficult last week, it was like my soul just said enough already! I ended up having to cancel our meeting this week-didn't have a babysitter. But, I must say I wasn't disappointed in not going. And, for the past hour & half I've been struggling to stay focused to work on the study. I've found myself stopping to listen to music playing on my computer. And quite frankly having a fight with God about why He would choose this to highlight & use in my life. (i'm probably just pouting a bit...). But seriously, if I stopped & looked back at my life & was trying to pick out a ministry for my life, this would not be it! I'd pick something I was actually good at, an area that I had neatly put together. Not a subset of my life that has been an area of insecurity, one that is so emotionally raw for families in the midst of it. Most definately not an area that I struggle to share about. I would have picked some area I am more confident in...
(Guess this is what happens when I'm not in charge!)
I'm sure this is a centuries old fight with God & I feel sure I'll get over it.
Since there will probably not be an answer as to 'why' until I can ask Him face to face, I'll just trust. But as of right now, I'm none to keen on the idea ;)

[jllm04]

So love God's little pats on the back! Carried Me just came on...'randomly' from my computer. Haven't heard that song in a while & I love it! Thanks God! :)

[DawnAurora]

Ok, so today I'm feeling very human...
After the very emotionally difficult last week, it was like my soul just said enough already! I ended up having to cancel our meeting this week... But, I must say I wasn't disappointed in not going. And, for the past hour & half I've been struggling to stay focused to work on the study. I've found myself stopping to listen to music playing on my computer. And quite frankly having a fight with God about why He would choose this to highlight & use in my life. (i'm probably just pouting a bit...). But seriously, if I stopped & looked back at my life & was trying to pick out a ministry for my life, this would not be it! I'd pick something I was actually good at, an area that I had neatly put together. Not a subset of my life that has been an area of insecurity, one that is so emotionally raw for families in the midst of it. Most definately not an area that I struggle to share about. I would have picked some area I am more confident in...
(Guess this is what happens when I'm not in charge!)
I'm sure this is a centuries old fight with God & I feel sure I'll get over it.
Since there will probably not be an answer as to 'why' until I can ask Him face to face, I'll just trust. But as of right now, I'm none to keen on the idea ;)

Lana, you are quoting me VERBATIM. I have this fight with Him about staying on at HAS.

[jllm04]

Well Dawn, I guess that makes two of us:) I have yet to understand why I want (wholeheartedly) to do the things He asks me to, then I find myself saying-just not that. Even if it starts out that I'm just doing something because I feel led to, it's just not going to go any furthur than that, it does. So I find myself in conversation with Him about how much it hurts. I can't. Why this area? I'm so much more qualified to do, whatever. Blah, Blah... What I am getting better about, us listening. And consequently doing. Even when I don't understand. Or, have to recount events in my life that are down right painful. It would be much easier not to. But, I do. (most of the time anyway:) )
I hate that you are feeling that way too. Not fun! Hopefully He will ask you to do some other thing that puts you in a period of rest & refreshment soon. We all need those 'pit stops' to refuel! :)
Hugs my friend!!
Lana:)

[jllm04]

Eventhough we went ahead and named the 3 babies we lost to miscarriage & felt as though we were led to, there is a part of that I still struggle with. It most definately validated them & my pregnancies with them. But I have yet to 'get over' the fact that I named children I had no relationship with. And never will. It is just really odd to me to name children that the extent of my relationship with is that I knew they were there, then they were not, and know I will see them again someday. I don't even know what they will look like, or sound like, or smell like... You know, things any mother should know about her children. There is a strange juxtoposition in that I don't want to refer to these babies like I knew them when people ask. I don't. But there is a strange feeling of disrespect sometimes when I don't. I don't want people to think that I have some wierd relationship with dead children. Like I talk to them to find out what they did today. (I most certainly do not!).
There was such a feeling of guilt after I named them-temporarily, that I hadn't done this earlier. Hadn't taken the time to realize how real they were. I was so sorry. I've made my peace with that, but I just pray I realize how much to share when people ask. (Laura, I understand so distinctly what you shared!) this is just one of the things I struggle with on a daily basis trying to figure all this out!

[DawnAurora]

"Death to self" hurts ;). We hate having to do that, and then we buckle down and do it for Him anyway even if we do it kicking and screaming. Well, the son who told his dad 'I won't go' and then went anyway was the one praised by Jesus.

What I've had to work on the last few is realizing when He's asking for the painful sacrifice, and when I'm assuming He's asking but it's really my worldly expectations based on pleasing people. I just about had a meltdown yesterday over whether or not to take an extension on this vacation. Our HIV coordinator leaves on the 14th, and I was about in a tantrum saying, Lord, I'll be well just a couple days before leaving, and I am wiped, I need some healthy time to just chill. I'm not willing to make the sacrifice of just getting to where I can do stuff and eat stuff and boom, back to 9 months of hellacious work laying people off! I don't want to ask You if I may extend, I need some consideration here!" He finally got through my head to say, "Child, chill! I don't WANT to ask you to go back wiped out, I'm not against you asking for another week. I'm the one trying to teach you not to think everything depends on you, it depends on Me. You're SUPPOSED to ask for a week at times like this, that isn't an exception you are supposed to beg from Me!"

I was the one afraid and assuming that He would demand sacrifice. As soon as I got the email from my boss granting the extra week, I felt both a 'whoosh' in my emotions and the deeper peace in my spirit that this was of Him.

Maybe many women who've had miscarriages make the same error, both at the time and when they try to deal? Other people want their attention or say they should be over it, and they assume that God wants them to always always put other people first. But then they never hear Him saying that what He actually wants them to do is to take time to deal with what is hurting them, so they don’t give themselves enough time to heal, so they windup being the walking wounded. Not just held back not from service to others, or even from service to Him, but from being healed. And He wants his daughters before He wants his daughter’s service – He’s got plenty of angels in a crunch.

Orrr… women assume that grief is supposed to be painful, or that if they aren’t suffering they aren’t dealing, or whatever. Sometimes He chooses to work us through some things by reminding us of the good times as being the times we had with folks, and holding on to that as our remembrance, and it winds up being ‘too pleasant’ to seem appropriate. So they don’t let themselves believe He would lead them through pleasant paths to process this, or grace to bring them through gently instead of crushing them (you and me here).

Much of all this comes down to learning to trust Him with our hearts and our well being, and that He won’t relegate our needs to the bottom of the pile when we agree to serve as the least of all servants.

[jllm04]

Dawn, that is incredibly insightful. The one thing I would add is that in my case I such a group of people around me that didn't want to see me suffer that they wouldn't let me 'sit in it' for a while. They just pushed us through...
I'm still not sure about how to handle conversations, I'm just trusting that when they happen He will give me the words to say. And that I'm strong enough to actually say them:)
Dawn, I am so elated that you are getting an extra week to refuel! God is good!!! :)

[DawnAurora]

Dawn, that is incredibly insightful. The one thing I would add is that in my case I such a group of people around me that didn't want to see me suffer that they wouldn't let me 'sit in it' for a while. They just pushed us through...
I'm still not sure about how to handle conversations, I'm just trusting that when they happen He will give me the words to say. And that I'm strong enough to actually say them:)
Dawn, I am so elated that you are getting an extra week to refuel! God is good!!! :)

Yep, most people don't understand the need for patience in grieving...
Praying for you. God is gracious as well, in many ways. He'll guide you in when to converse and what to say, and give you strength. If you don't seem to have it, it isn't time yet, so don't feel conversation is mandatory.

[jllm04]

I am so very thankful for the ladies that will be leading this study & are walking through it with us. What they have each been through reaked havoc on their lives to such a degree that it makes me hurt to my core. However, Christ met them where they were & walked them out! And it's because of them that Sherry & I felt safe to truly open up. And know that if we were going to do this, it wasn't going to be half-hearted! My prayer for each of you that has opened up to me about walking this path, no matter the circumstances that led to the loss is this. That you will have a physical person in your lives to go with you as you walk from point A to point B in grieving to healing your loss. But, that even if you do not, if you led to, that you will. God is always there. I love you all! :)

[jllm04]

(that would be "that if you led to, you will". Sorry!)

[jllm04]

heading into our meeting. gut tells me today is going to be rather productive! Keep us in your prayers:)

[LauraA]

Praying that your day is productive and that you continue to grow in your relationships with the little ones you've lost. What I mean by that is this; it hit me earlier that until our hearts are free to connect with them, we can't really say goodbye. When we've rushed through grief, or tried to be "strong" or "get over it"...we've shoved that relationship aside, so we were unable to bond with the babies we've lost, even though we longed (unconsciously probably) to do so. Because of that, we couldn't really say goodbye. It's hard to say "goodbye" when we've not said "hello."

I'm not sure I explained that right, but it's what the Lord laid on my heart.

[jllm04]

Laura, that makes a tremendous amount of sense!
It probably has something to do with why I felt such a sense of guilt after naming the babies. At that moment I realized children in my life had died. Not just some horrible event that happened one day(s). Human beings, that I was apart of conceiving, passed away, before they ever took their first breath. Before I ever knew them. The shame at that moment, realizing that human beings had passed & I never took the time, in all honesty, make them human & validate them in their passing. I would assume Laura, it is the same type of emotion you alluded to in an earlier post. But then yes, I did gain some kind of a connection with them & it made it much easier to grieve. Don't get me wrong, I still have sad days, & assume I will for a while. Maybe sad moments for them for as long as I'm on this earth. I don't know. Today was one of those. We were to pick out a berevement (sp?) card for each of our losses. (John & I picked one, because it said it all so well.) As I was holding that card in my hands reading it, I had one of those moments where I couldn't believe I was having to do what I was doing, happy to have found a suitable card, and loving/hating the words. They were so right, but why did they have to just sock me in the stomach like that? I fight back tears everytime I look at that card. It's very simple. Just to the point.
Today's meeting was productive. Very good things are happening!! :)

[LauraA]

I think that the grieving process that I am going through right now is a form of bonding, of saying hello....which will take me to that point of being able to say good-bye to that little one that was torn from me 34 years ago. It's rough. But it's good. Lana, you keep on walking that road, hand in hand with Jesus. Or being carried by Him.

[jllm04]

Laura, I understand. There's something about trying to let go (grieving) what you didn't know or have. Very hard to do! But, remarkably God gives you what you need to know to 'know them' and then grieve & sort of turn them back over to Him. Atleast, that is what I'm finding. Ahh, God's caring & gentle hand! It may be hard work, but there is such beauty in it!
Keep pressing in & through Laura!
Praying for you too:)
Lana :)

[LauraA]

Yes, it's a beautiful thing, really. Although there are tears and all the emotions that go with losing a baby, I see God's hand in it. I have found myself wondering what it would of felt like to hold him or her. To kiss his cheek. (I have had the sense that I lost a boy, but I'm not sure.)

You know how you look at a baby's fingers and toes, and just feel awe over them? I've pictured myself doing that lately with the one I lost. I can only get so far with it, and my brain and heart stops. I do the old 'block the pain' thing. But each time I've allowed myself to go "there," I've moved a little further down the path. I sometimes feel like a toddler learning to walk, and Jesus is in front of me with His arms held out, coaching me on, ready to catch me when I feel I can't go any further. It gives me comfort to know He is with us as we go through our pain. I love Him so much!

[jllm04]

Very familiar terriority Laura:) I think God allows us those times & somehow it helps in grieving the loss. I don't understand the process exactly, I just know it helps. Stay alert as you walk through this though. Satan is all too happy
to take any opportunity to divert you off the healthy path...
God's gentle touch in this time is amazing! I didn't fully notice it until I could look back on it some, but AMAZING none the less:)
It's work-but worth it!

[4himccm]

Losing a baby is hard (I know from what my parents and sister went through and what my brother & his wife went through). My parents lost one when my sister was 6 (not sure how far along my mom was). I have a big sister named Jennifer that I will meet in Heaven. And yes that is my name as well. My mom always wanted a Jennifer so 7 years later when I was born... I was told about the miscarriage and the fact that my parents gave her a name prevented some questions. And when I talk about it, I can say I have a big sister that would have been 38 this year and her name is Jennifer. My brother & his wife lost their first one in December. They are due in November, so I have a niece/nephew in Heaven and one that's on the way [which I'm excited for:)]

So for those of you who have one or more babies in Heaven I can kind of understand (2nd hand I realize) remember that God is definitely walking you through the grief process whether it's been a short time or many years. And naming the baby can help as well. At the very least you won't have people asking if the baby was ever named and if your other children ever talk about the loss, they can identify the sibling by name (even if it's the same as their own.) No my eyes are watering up (which hasn't happened before when I've talked about my big sister Jennifer).

[Kelly]

Wow Jennifer, when you put it that way, I can't wait to meet my big sister in heaven! :) She would've been 2 years older than me

[jllm04]

So amazing to hear each of your stories & again I thank you for your openess:)
We had another good meeting today. The part that I personally am most excited about is that one of our leaders mentioned that she would be happy to put the full study together in notebooks & send it out to anyone interested & do the 'lessons' via skype. Either in a group or one on one. I am so thrilled at this prospect because we have been so blessed by these ladies. By their stories, their openness, & the completely safe & trustworthy environment they created for us. Plus, their leadership through this. Also, my friend Sherry said she would be available to speak with anyone who had lost a child after he or she was born. (she lost her son 6 years ago to a rare genetic disorder). Sherry & I would be available to be involved in the Skype sessions if y'all would like.
If right now is not right, we can look at dates in the future.
Pray about it-then pm me if you are interested or have any questions!
I love you guys & am so excited to see what God is going to do with this opportunity!
Lana :)

[LauraA]

We've been camping and I've not kept up with the boards like I usually do. Last Friday night Dan, Ben and I were sitting on the hillside here at the campground waiting for the outside movie night to begin. Dan and I were talking about how it hurts to know what Jeremy and Adie were going through. I started crying and just let the pain of it all take over for a few minutes. Then I told Dan that I've been trying to allow myself to grieve for the baby I lost 34 years ago. He just sat and held my hand as I cried. It was very sweet. I looked up at the sky with the stars overhead and the awesomeness of God just consumed me. It was very moving. Wow. Our God is soooooo Soooooo SOOOO beyond any words that I have to describe Him!!

[DawnAurora]

Way beyond and thank Him for that!

I am slowly gaining an appreciation for the communication of the Spirit that doesn't require being hauled into the confines of words.

[LauraA]

Way beyond and thank Him for that!

I am slowly gaining an appreciation for the communication of the Spirit that doesn't require being hauled into the confines of words.

Yes! Exactly.

[jllm04]

Hey guys:)
good meeting yesterday! Some things I would like to share, but right now is not good. However, I have 1 sick little girl & a minor family crisis to deal with...so I'll have to post later. Thanks!

[Kelly]

Oh no! Praying for the family! Hope everything's ok :) *hugs*

[jllm04]

I know I haven't posted here in a few days, and believe me it's not because there isn't anything to share! Just hasn't been the right time.
I'll try to post later today:)

[Angie Rose]

sooo when i told my mom (and dad) about what happened with adie adn the baby, she told me that i was her 3rd pregnancy. ( im an only child... or so i thought) im still trying to get used to the thought that i have siblings... 2 of them. yikes

[LauraA]

How do you feel about it, Angie?

[Angie Rose]

i dont know. confused i guess would be the best way to describe it... i was kinda upset that they didnt tell me sooner.... but, now not so much. theres just a lot of stuff surrounding the whole thing that i dont have time to post right now thats just making me wonder just HOW truthful my parents (especially my mom) have been about their (and my) past... i think its too fresh for me to be feeling anything right now.

[Angie Rose]

ok sooo... the stuff i didnt have time to post that i do have time to now is that earlier this year, i found out that my mom was married BEFORE she met my dad. this mariage lasted about a year, i think, and then they divorced... let me tell you how i found out about this...

so i was looking throught out files (paper work, birth certificates, important documents, etc) looking for my dog's info, because i forgot if his birth day was may 6 or may 27... (turns out it was neither...) anyways, so i was doing that, and i came across a folder titled as follows:

...Rhonda's divorce papers...

i dont remember seeing anything else.. just that my mom had been divorced. soooo i, of course opened the file, found the papers and read thru all that stuff... sooo i didnt say anything 2 them about it for 2 days, ans then i brought it up. i asked my mom why she hasnt told me and she said that she wasnt sure how to tell me, she wasnt even sure that she WAS going to tell me! (thats where the problem starts. )

so like i said, when adie miscarried, i told my parents and then my mom told me that i was her 3rd pregnancy. well, i wonder if she had even intended to tell me that? i mean, if she never intended to tell me about the divorce, why should i believe that she was going to tell me that i have 2 older siblings? if she WAS going to... she should've by now. im 13. im old enough to know.

the papers said that my mom didnt have any children with that other guy... ( i cant remember his name, and quite frankly, i dotn care, either)...

btu im starting to wonder... they might not have had LIVING children, but whos to say that one (or both!) of my moms miscariages werent with him?

soo thats the ''other stuff'' that i mentioned.

[CaraBear]

Angie,

I can understand how you feel. I dont think your Mom has been untruthful with you...she just didnt share with you details of her past. Honestly it is HER past and she can keep it there. The important part is that she married your Dad and did finally have you.

I had a similar experiance when I was 10. I found papers..just like you...of a baby's death certificate. My mother had lost a child only 3 days after her birth. Her name was Christina and she was a preemie just like me.

I talked with my dad about this and mother still didnt speak of this baby til years later when I was about to have my first child.

See my mother wasnt being untruthful. This was just a painful experiance that she didnt want to share..it was to difficult for her.

Maybe your mothers first marriage was a bad experiance that she would just as soon forget. Its not easy for us grownups to tell our kids about our mistakes.

Dont be so hard on your Mom. If you have questions ask her. I am sure that as you start to grow into a woman yourself your mother will also start to share more of her life as a woman..not just a mom.

[jllm04]

Hi Ladies:)
hope you all have had a fruitful week, wether by gaining some piece of knowledge you didn't previously have, or by being a blessing to someone in another situation!
Angie, sounds like you have a lot on your plate. Just keep your eyes on Jesus as you walk through this. I'm sure He will reveal some things to you, they may even surprise you:) Your mother is a human being just like all of the rest of us. None of us is perfect.

[DawnAurora]

How goes with the youngster and the family? Still praying.

[jllm04]

Hey Ladies,
I had not intended to leave so much time between posts here. We are continuing to plug along with the bible study. We are in one of those stretches where we are doing and learning alot, but trying to figure out to re-tell it has been another story.
This stretch has been about anger & the role it can play in the loss of a child. The best thing I can think of to summarize is to stay alert. It is amazing the places Satan can sneak in and manipulate. While anger in some instances is a very appropriate emotion, sinning in it is not & that is where things can get a bit dicey.
We have spent some time id'ing anger triggers & verses to keep at the forefront of our minds. Loosing a child is complicated & intense enough. There really is no need to leave a door open for Satan to stick his foot into.
Oh, read a book, Rain Dance. DeKok, I believe is the author's last name.
While it is a relatively predictable book, some of the conversations that occur in the book are conversations that you long to have (if you've ever walked this journey), but probably didn't. Atleast not this honest. Not going to be for everyone. It will make you think:)

[LauraA]

Thank you for the book suggestion, Lana. I will check it out next time I'm at the bookstore.

Cara, excellent words of wisdom. You inspire me!

Angie Rose. My heart goes out to you. I can understand why you would feel kind of left out and uninformed after stumbling upon the news. But please try to see this from your mom's position, too. It might help you to understand the "why" behind you not being told.

I would like to reinforce what Cara said to you. As you all know, I was married to another man (at age 16) for 10 years. He was abusive to me, but I was unable to escape because he threatened my life. 3 years after the Lord allowed me to run from him, (and remain alive), I married Dan, who I'd met a year after my divorce. Divorce is a terrible experience! I was so afraid and so humiliated. I blamed myself, even though I was physically and emotionally abused for 10 years. Etc.

Ben (mine and Dan's year old) knows I was married to a man who wasn't nice to me. The only reason he knows is because one of our grandsons told him. So I explained some things to him about it. Before Noah spilled the beans, I didn't know when I would tell him. I knew I probably would, but didn't know how to do it. I still have feelings of being a failure because I was divorced. Some place in my brain, the feelings of "It's my fault Jim used to beat me. It's my fault I lost my baby. It's my fault he had 3 affairs." Now, with my heart, I know these things were not my fault, but still...those thoughts are in there. It's hard to tell a child about past situations that don't apply to them. I know that what I went through would be an opportunity to teach some things, but the time hadn't presented itself yet.

If your mom is a private person, it would be even harder to tell about the past. It's not pleasant to talk about. It hurts. It brings up old fears and feelings. Your mom may of planned on telling you some day when the time was right, when she was feeling strong enough to talk about it, or when she felt you were ready to hear about it. She may of wanted to bury it and forget it ever happened.

What I'm trying to do here is to let you know that there is probably more to the story than just the fact that she was married and divorced. There is a story that goes with it, and I'm guessing it's something that isn't fun to talk about. Extend understanding and patience into this. Pray for your mom. Pray that the Lord helps you to deal with the feelings of it all. I understand your hurt and confusion, but I also understand your mom's.

Praying for you, dear. Don't let your heart be troubled too long over this, ok? Maybe you could tell your mom that when she is ready, you are willing to listen and learn from her past mistakes. Be patient and show her how much you love her.

(((Hugs!!!)))

[4himccm]

I agree with Laura. Some good words of wisdom. My mom told me what had happened to her parents when she was 9. The story she initially told me was different from what had actually happened (which was a murder/suicide). It took my mom quite awhile before she was willing to tell anyone what had actually happened. A car accident sounds less awkward than your dad killed your pregnant mom because she had an affair w/ an uncle then killed himself so that he couldn't go to jail for it.

[Angie Rose]

hey guys. sorry i havent poste here in awhile. thanks for all the advice and prayers everyone. :)


2 things have happened:
1. Ive realized how selfish ive been thru this whole thing. i think thats something God's been showing me lately... (how selfish i am)

2. the sunday before youth retreat, we had a prayer service for retreat and any needs that we wanted prayer for. a guy told us that he had found out THAT DAY that he was actually his moms second child, that she had had and abortion.(on the first child) which obviously hit me hard, because i had found out something similar not too long before. so we got to talking after the service, and... anyways.. ill stop rambling. :( sorry. it was just kinda cool how God worked that out. :)

love you all. :)

peace

angie

[4himccm]

God does some amazing things Angie. Keep that teachable spirit.

[Angie Rose]

:) i hope and pray that i do keep that teachability.... i dont want to ever become so stubborn that i refust to listed no what God is telling me... that is one dangerous game.

[jllm04]

Angie, your right-that is one dangerous game!
Teachability is a place I strive to stay in...sometimes it works rather nicely, sometimes I get too big of a head on my shoulders:)

Things are going nicely with the study. The past (I think 4) weeks have all been on the roles that anger can play in loss. Satan can be SO sneaky guys...we've got to stay alert!
I want to reiterate that the study is still available via Skype for those who had expressed an earlier interest & anyone who has read through or contributed to this thread. Having had walked this journey as well. The program at PRA is growing & has a few new participants. As happy as I am that they are taking advantage of the study, it always saddens me to hear their stories-just knowing that another woman/couple has lost a child.
Admittedly Tuesday was a sad day for me. I was really missing the babies we lost for some reason & then the study didn't do anything to help. I really struggled for most of the day. Guess I will always have those days...
However, today October 15 is the national day of remembrence for those who have lost children. So today, I will light a candle for those of you whom I know have suffered through this loss. Also, tomorrow through Saturday is '24 for life' here in Abilene. 24 continuous hours of prayer & praise for life. I will be thinking of each one of you there too! :)

[jllm04]

At 24 for Life...thinking of each of you Ladies! Love ya'll :)

[DJHorn92300]

I am new to this thread and this board. I wanted to share a few things about myself and what we have been though and ask for your prayers as we wait for our answers. :)

We have lost 7 babies trying to have one baby. it has been 10 years that we have been trying. We just went to a new doctor about 2 weeks ago and we are waiting to hear about the results of our tests. So i am praying they will tell me it is something simple that we can fix and then we can have a baby with no problems! :)

I have also been though several surgeries to find out why we keep loosing babies, and i had brain surgery. i am recovering but it takes forever to heal after brain surgery. i just work at it everyday to try to get 100% again. :)

anyway, i am an open book so if you have any questions or anything at all please feel free to ask me anything.

I can tell you that my faith and my husbands faith is one of the biggest things that have gotten us though our losses. It has only brought us closer as a couple and we hold on even stronger to God when something bad happens like this. Then we try to find a way to turn it into something positive.

anyway, feel free to ask me anything. :)

God bless you all!

[Kelly]

Wow, I am so sorry to hear that! Must be tough! I pray that the doctors are able to help you figure out what's wrong. Faith is absolutely vital in situations like that and I'm happy to see you and your husband have such a strong faith together :) God bless you!

[DJHorn92300]

Hi Kelly,
thank you so much for writing. Yes, my husband and I do have a VERY strong faith. I did question it a while ago, but then i had a change of heart and it seemed that my faith only got stronger. And when i gave all of this to God and asked him to help us and that i would trust him 100% then we found this other doctor. so I really think that it is going to happen soon. :) it is all in God's hands. We trust him 100%. it was hard to acept that at first, but i really think i have been able to "let it go" and just trust God with everything. :)